~ Updated and Revised: February 26th, 2019 ~
John Calvin confessed that the doctrine of Double Predestination was a horrible and dreadful decree in his Institutes of the Christian Religion. Calvin believed that the scriptures taught that God made an "absolute decree" (latin. decretum absolutum) before the foundation of the world that all people would be divided into two classes of the elect and the reprobate that was determined by God's decision alone.
Unlike many Calvinists today, Calvin believed that God's absolute decree to predestine an individual to eternal death was not a wonderful or glorious thing, instead Calvin confessed that it was a dreadful and horrible decree. Is it not a horrible decree that God would create something for eternal perdition? And it is dreadful and horrible indeed! How could we respond in any other way than to say such a final ends is horrible and dreadful! The possibility that God would create any person for eternal death calls into question the goodness of God. The best Calvinists scholars who affirmed Calvin's doctrine of double predestination admit that is a "mystery" how God may make such an absolute decree and predestine anyone to hell. I agree that there are many dreadful and horrible doctrines, and it may not be possible to understand how they glorify god, because we see through a mirror dimly or hear them in an enigmatic word. (1 Cor 13:12).
John Calvin on the "horrible" and "dreadful" absolute decree of God
The following two quotations are from the Institutes of the Christian Religion where John Calvin explicitly calls the absolute decree (decretum absolutum) a "dreadful" and "horrible" decree!
Again I ask: whence does it happen that Adam's fall irremediably involved so many peoples, together with their infant offspring, in eternal death unless because it so pleased God? Here their tongues, otherwise so loquacious, must become mute. The decree is dreadful indeed, I confess. (latin. "Decretum quidem horribile, fateor."; french. "Je confesse que ce decret nous doit epouvanter.") Yet no one can deny that God foreknew what end man was to have before he created him, and consequently foreknew because he so ordained by his decree. If anyone inveighs against God's foreknowledge at this point, he stumbles rashly and heedlessly. What reason is there to accuse the Heavenly Judge because he was not ignorant of what was to happen? If there is any just or manifest complaint, it applies to predestination. And it ought not to seem absurd for me to say that God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his descendants, but also meted it out in accordance with his own decision. For as it pertains to his wisdom to foreknow everything that is to happen, so it pertains to his might to rule and control everything by his hand. And Augustine also skillfully disposes of this question, as of others: "We most wholesomely confess what we most correctly believe, that the God and Lord of all things, who created all things exceedingly good [cf. Gen 1:31], and foreknew that evil things would rise out of good, and also knew that it pertained to his most omnipotent goodness to bring good out of evil things to be . . . , so ordained the life of angels and men that in it he might first of all show what free will could do, and then what the blessing of his grace and the verdict of his justice could do. (Augustine, On Rebuke and Grace X. 27)". [1]
And,
For as soon as God's dread majesty (latin. "horribilis dei maiestas") comes to mind, we cannot but tremble and be driven far away by the recognition of our own unworthiness, until Christ comes forward as intermediary, to change the throne of dreadful glory into the throne of grace. As the apostle also teaches how we should dare with all confidence to appear, to receive mercy, and to find grace in timely help (Heb 4.16). And as a rule has been established to call upon God, and a promise given that those who call upon him shall be heard, so too we are particularly bidden to call upon him in Christ's name; and we have the promise made that we shall obtain what we have asked in his name. "Hitherto," he says, "you have asked nothing in my name; ask and you will receive." (John 16:24, comm.) "In that day you will ask in my name" (John 16:26, Vg.), and "whatever you ask . . . I will do it that the Father may be glorified in the Son" (John 14:13, cf. Comm. and Vg.) [2]
Karl Barth's response to John Calvin
The best response to John Calvin is Karl Barth's reconstruction of Calvin's doctrine of double predestination. Karl Barth affirmed Calvin's absolute decree, but reoriented it around Jesus Christ, and Barth taught that Jesus is the one and only elected one and rejected one (reprobate), and all people are rejected and elected in Jesus Christ (Eph 1:4). Karl Barth transforms Calvin's doctrine of election from a horrible and dreadful decree into a doctrine of election that is a sum of the Gospel! Barth's doctrine of double predestination provides hope for universalism too because we are all criminals with Jesus (just as John Calvin had universalist flashes throughout his Institutes of the Christian Religion too). I believe Karl Barth is right to believe John Calvin would be grateful for his help, as we all may be today.
Sources:
1. John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion III.xxiii.7 (The Library of Christian Classics), trans. Ford Lewis Battles, Westminster John Knox Press (January 1, 1960), pg 955-956
2. Ibid. pg 874-875. [Institutes III.xx.17]
3. Header image of woman screaming (source: wikipedia)
Related: Decretum Absolutum, doctrine of election, Double Predestination, dreadful, dreadful decree, election, heaven, Hell, horrible, Horrible Decree, institutes of the christian religion, John Calvin, Karl Barth, Universalism
July 13th, 2018 - 12:41
I find “double predestination” to be altogether “unjust”. Any God who would foreordain one to such a montserous happenstance would not be worthy of worship. I certainly would not worship him. I am a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. I am believer in the God of the Bible. How then can I answer? The Bible does indeed contain the truth. But does it contain all of the truth? Plain reason incontrovertablely asserts that it certainly does not! If I have to argue for the truth of that assertion, I’m having a discourse with ones who hold to beliefs they cannot defend in any way, shape or form. Are there those of you who know everything?
Could it be that there is some thing, that we don’t now know, that anwsers this perplexing question? Is God obligated to reveal everything to us? I contend that only God knows everything. In all likely hood this shall always be. Think for a moment of our God, our maker. The creator of the universe & all contained there in. I’m convinced God created the universe & all contained there in, with his intellegence. He “knew” how to do it. We don’t know how to do that. How much more knowlelgde and/or intelligence would a human being have to come to possess in order to be able to create a Universe? It boggles the imagination to think of it.
If we were to put Gods intelligence side by side with the intelligence of the most intelligent person to have ever lived what would we see? I suggest the humans intelligence would be a barely discernable tiny, little speck & that God’s intelligence couldn’t even sit next to the humans intelligence, there would be no room for it. God’s intelligence would engulf it & His intelligence would stretch out beyound the bounds of the known universe.
Is it time for us to say “We dont know”. Are there things past finding out? Isn’t it true that our faith must take over where our intellectual & other human resources run out? Isn’t that what faith is for?
God gave me faith in His son Jesus Christ, thru this faith I have the promise of immortality, I’m convinced that I have a place reserved for me in heaven. (1st Peter 1:3-4. I believe God sovereignly gave me this faith. I also believe that every other human on earth can recieve this faith. Paul said: Whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Romans 10:13) I also believe that not all will recieve it.
Can I answer this? No. Is foreordination to reprobation a possibility? It could be. Currently I can’t reconcile it with justice. Until I can, I’ll have to hold to my belief that it’s not true & that there’s some other explainaton that none of us can currently adequately explain or understand.
God is God & we are not / We can only see part of the picture he painting / Will we ever understand it all? (A paraphrase of a song by Steven Curtis Chapman entiled “God is God”) YouTube it.
July 16th, 2018 - 10:30
Dear friends:
I got to thinking about the last (Above) post I left. I started by saying”I find “double predestination” to be altogether “unjust”. Any God who would foreordain one to such a monstrous happenstance would not be worthy of worship. I certainly would not worship him. I am a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. I am believer in the God of the Bible.
Then I ended this same post with: Is foreordination to reprobation a possibility? It could be. Currently I can’t reconcile it with justice. Until I can, I’ll have to hold to my belief that it’s not true & that there’s some other explanation that none of us can currently adequately explain or understand.
I could see how many would see this as contradictory, so I thought I should come back and clarify some more.
It’s true I don’t believe in double predestination. I do find it a monstrous thing to attribute to a loving God, to a just God, to the God of the bible, as I know him currently. I’m passionate about that.
But there’s another thing I’m passionate about. I’m passionate about the fact that we’re all finite (limited) & fallible (prone to error) human beings. There are things we can’t see, can’t fathom, things beyond our reach by any known means. There could be something I’m not seeing, not fathoming, not reaching. If I could see more, fathom more, reach more with all of my limited human resources, of what ever sort, then perhaps I could reconcile double predestination with that of a just God.
Despite the above statement, I feel sure that our gaining greater insight, into this matter would lead us away from a belief in double predestination not toward it. Many other matters are Germain to this discussion, one’s that I have neither the time nor the many other resources necessary to address at this time.
I find prayer to be helpful in times like these. We can make an appeal to a being who is not finite or fallible, with whom there is no possibility of error or miscalculation, our maker, The Almighty, He can guild us. Let me offer such a prayer.
Father in heaven, our creator, you who came to earth in the person of a man, Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, prophesied of by the Hebrew prophets, we make our appeal to you, is anything hidden from your eyes? Bring a revelation of these matters to our minds, enable us to grasp them, to reach them. Add these things to us, for your Glory, that we may proclaim the liberating truths of your Kingdom thru out all the earth, we are needy children of yours, acknowledging our desperate need of your intervention in our lives, Lord Jesus apart from you we can do nothing to advance the cause of truth & righteousness, let us abide in you and your word abide in us, we wish it, we want it, we will it, we pray that you will it, as well, we trust that you do, that we may ask what we will & it will be done unto us*. A great & a precious promise, give us the faith to believe it, help our unbelief, take us by the hand, show us the way, that all we must do, we will do, that we may walk in this faith. You are able, we await your guiding hand, your empowering spirit. Heavenly father we remember the words of your son Jesus who said: that if we had faith & doubted not that what so ever we ask in prayer believing we would receive**, Father we have faith, we don’t doubt that you want to do all these things we ask – thank you for your love & for faithfulness. We ask in Jesus name. Amen? Amen?
*John 15:4-7 ** Matthew 21:22
Warmly, in Jesus – Johnny Harry
February 26th, 2019 - 19:14
Barth came close to universalism, hinting that the whole world is redeemed in Christ. If he was given time to complete his outstanding CD, I am sure that he would have made this clear. The world is not rejected in Christ but redeemed in Him. That is also my belief.
February 26th, 2019 - 19:16
Barth came close to universalism, hinting that the whole world is redeemed in Christ. If he was given time to complete his outstanding CD, I am sure that he would have made this clear. The world is not rejected in Christ but redeemed in Him. That is also my belief.
November 14th, 2020 - 20:05
Barth’s doctrine of the redemption does not appear to be in accord with that of the Redeemer Himself, who repeatedly warns of the danger of hellfire for those who do not believe in the gospel, especially in the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man (Lk 16:19-31). Why don’t these theologians just come out and say “I think Jesus was wrong about this matter”, rather than constructing elaborate arguments to make it seem as though they are in agreement with Him in respect to this matter, or rather, that He is in agreement with them in respect to this matter?
March 18th, 2021 - 13:54
Because parables are parables – namely not intended to be taken literally, but rather to convey a teaching, a moral of the story so to speak. The meaning in those contexts could be taken, quite simply, as a “woe unto those who transgress against God!” sort of statement. The parables matter, absolutely, and contain foundational teaching, but it seems to be in the moral sense of it. However, when it is said that all things will be reconciled to God, or that God has come for the sake of the world and mankind, and that he is here offering salvation for all (and “especially those who believe”, curious wording isn’t it?), those aren’t given in parables. That is given as straightforward doctrine.
Also I’d suggest you to look into the Greek word “aionios” (αἰώνιος) because it severely undermines the “eternal punishment” notion which many a Christian takes for granted. It probably doesn’t mean what you think it does.
Christian Universalism has solid biblical foundations. I could go into more extensive biblical reasoning here, complete with a more thorough argument, but since I don’t wish to spam the comment section with my rambling, I will refrain for now. But why do you gleeful hell-believers always make it seem like the Universalist position is some cynical, opportunistic and conscious warping of the Scripture? It isn’t. I don’t assume that of your lot, why should you assume it of Universalists?
September 17th, 2022 - 05:15
Karl Barth’s answer maybe sounds better -for it gives us all hope -but it is not Scriptural. There will always be those who persist in sin and evil and do not want anything to do with the Savior. It will be better to hold to the Confessions -that we are only saved by His gracious Hand. And others -with the same sinner’s nature and life -chose on their own to remain as unbelievers. And that God has chosen to affirm their choice in HIs decree.
The decree (election and reprobation) as the Confessions says is not a pure mirror of each other or symmetrical. We only hope and work that many will be saved ultimately. We cannot argue for a universalist position that the Scriptures do not support nor are truthful for those we failed to warn or warn seriously.
August 7th, 2023 - 22:13
God has predetermined the only way to salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ and therefore under this unique “way” those who believe are predestined to be saved through Christ ‘s atonement, in other words God’s plan and work of salvation would not fail and is guaranteed to be accomplished despite that Satan so wanted many times to sidetrack it. He “predestined “ the plan and the process, but individual person would still have to accept it.
When Moses lifted up the bronze snake in the desert, those who by faith lifted their eyes to see it were saved, but there were still some did not bother to see.